July 5, 2024
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The Real Crime Diary Blog Sex Crimes Trans Rights and Gender Identity with Kathleen Stock
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Trans Rights and Gender Identity with Kathleen Stock



What happens when public policy meets the complex world of modern gender identity? Our guest today is Kathleen Stock, a former professor of philosophy at the University of Sussex, author of the critically-acclaimed “Material Girls,” and an Officer of the Order of the British Empire (OBE) awardee. Kathleen joins host John Tomasi to navigate the often-tense intersection of trans rights, gender identity, and academic freedom. Despite facing protests, security threats, and professional challenges, Kathleen steadfastly advocates for open inquiry and reasoned debate.

Today, John and Kathleen discuss the controversial landscape of transgender issues. Kathleen criticizes the medicalization of gender questioning and the societal pressure it places on individuals. She explains how academic and societal frameworks have rapidly evolved with the influence of activism, particularly examining the ramifications for single-sex spaces and public policies.

In This Episode:
• Criticism of the medicalization of gender questioning
• The societal impact of Stonewall’s policy changes and the Gender Recognition Act
• Challenges faced by Kathleen in professional settings due to her views
• Debates over the inclusion of trans women in single-sex spaces and sports
• The role of free speech and reason in academic discourse
• Concerns for the future of universities and academic freedom

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Check out her book Material Girls:

About Kathleen:
Kathleen Stock is a contributing writer at UnHerd and a co-director of The Lesbian Project. She is the author of Material Girls: Why Reality Matters for Feminism (Little Brown 2021) and Only Imagine: Fiction, Interpretation and Imagination (Oxford University Press 2017). Until 2021, she was a Professor of Philosophy at Sussex University. In the last few years, she has written for UK national publications on a range of issues, especially on sex, gender, and women’s rights. In 2024, she was highly commended for her UnHerd columns at the UK Press Awards; in 2022, she was voted World’s Top Thinker in Prospect Magazine. She was awarded an Officer of the Order of the British Empire for services to higher education in 2020.

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21 Comments

  • Reply
    @pennycatterick5148 June 29, 2024

    This poor women is gripped by fear! Why might she cling to her gender and sexuality when she is much than that. She wants to deprive people of their natural being,…what lies behind her conception of life which is out of kilter with what nature intended. Everywhere you look in nature you see diversity in wide forms and varieties. Man kind's social construction of binary sex is in the minority. It seems that when life doesn't fit with Kathleen's conception then its wrong.
    I'm also interested in the bullying she experienced at school, seems like the bullied may now have become the bully.
    Until Kathleen stops her aversion to discussing this subject with a transgender person, all we hear from her is her view point;…which is limited.
    PennyXxx

  • Reply
    @illuminatiCorgi June 29, 2024

    7:15 Let's go!

  • Reply
    @KennyEvans-eg1lw June 29, 2024

    ''The road to HELL is paved with good intentions'' Liberals need to learn what this particular slice of wisdom means and learn it fast before they are tricked into destroying themselves

  • Reply
    @williamjohn7909 June 29, 2024

    The trans debate should be seen through the perspective of narcissism. The only thing that matters is what I feel. If you see it through that perspective, the whole phenomenon of adults acting like toddlers and glueing themselves to the floor is not so strange. Narcissism is often caused by neglectful parenting, and therefore, a child's need for attention from a parent are not met. In Western society parenthood, especially amongst the professional classes, is often seen as secondary to establishing a good career. Could it be that the growth in trans identity is as a result of parents failing to give their children the proper love and attention when they were growing up?

  • Reply
    @zenboy21 June 29, 2024

    Judith Butler utterly DEFLATES pretty much ALL TERF (or, as they prefer, "TE") arguments in their new book, "Who's Afraid of Gender." 🤔

  • Reply
    @skidcaesar June 29, 2024

    Aaaaaaannnnnddd subscribed. 👍🏻

    Srsly, this is the most respectful, rational and calm explanation / defense of an idea once taken for granted.

  • Reply
    @robjordan63 June 29, 2024

    Outstanding person, fine interview.

  • Reply
    @harleymerritt3630 June 29, 2024

    This is why kids go to a therapist, so everybody knows what is going on. They don't automaticly go on hormones. As far as reasoned debate, the cass report proves TERF wish trans people dead.

  • Reply
    @JescaML June 29, 2024

    What rights do they want that everyone else already has. What they want is special treatment and privileges like an entitled brat. And not take punishment for their actions

  • Reply
    @alanwood4968 June 29, 2024

    No such things, it is Male OR Female male has a penis a female has a womb and clitoris the the rest should be meeting in an asylum visiting a doctor.

  • Reply
    @njigyfd June 29, 2024

    Ms. Stock is a voice of penetrating humanity. Thank you Mr. Tomasi. Excellent conversation.

  • Reply
    @Anne_Onymous June 29, 2024

    I clicked on this title expecting the typical cringe alphabet propaganda and ended up staying for the whole convo. Interesting discussion thank you!

  • Reply
    @genericchannelname1233 June 29, 2024

    For the prison argument, someone said to me "well women commit crimes all the time, can't women be criminals now" I replied with "well duh, we're discussing a prison, but the types of crimes are different, the nature of the crimes aren't the same. Someone that exclusively r4p3s women shouldn't be given women to harm". These people are not logical, rational or mentally healthy. I believe a lot of them are stunted.

  • Reply
    @max67766 June 29, 2024

    Such a clear, reasoned, rational speaker. And not a single person has ever landed a good point on her. Because she's right.

    Dr Stock is a wonderful and inspiring human being. Thank you both for this interview.

  • Reply
    @allanbrewer3898 June 29, 2024

    I love this lady she is talking so much sense and yet there are so many ignorant people that won’t listen and think about the answers she is giving the LGBTQ’s people need to learn about what is going on in the gay community and stop destroying women and their rights as well as the children she is explaining it so well why won’t they listen.

  • Reply
    @neilmetcalfe5261 June 29, 2024

    Dr Stock should be made a Dame for services to reality! Always intelligent, measured and clear in her views on this divisive issue.

  • Reply
    @SP-1414 June 29, 2024

    Solidarity with Kathleen Stock and others fighting for women and reality.

  • Reply
    @Legion-of-James June 29, 2024

    Everything she says in relation to young females can be related to young boys aswell ( so im happy to hear she mentioned it briefly ) yet in the trans debate the female side makes the young girls victims and rightly so but when it comes to young boys being trans indoctrinated the young boys are treated like they have predatory motivations and are trying to remove womens rights…
    Males too are facing the same issues. The eating disorders are just as prevalent but gets ignored. No one raises concern with the suicide rate in young males being significantly higher than its ever been with females but its ignored.
    Taking the premise of her saying females fleeing womanhood, then id have to say that young boys are fleeing manhood but possibly for oposite reasons , theirs being to be noticed and escaping the suffocating boundries of achievement ,masculinity and societal expectations. Men are told they are to blame for everything thats negative and continually having their failings held out before them.. equality except when its something thats fine to leave to the expendable male..
    Gay men are far more persecuted than lesbians ever have been. Gay men in society are completely stripped of their male identity and masculinity by social systemic stereotypes, percieved are weaker people , awarded ridicule and dismissed from any value in the male space. especially with the trans ideological narrative… gay men are being encouraged to believe they are women born into the wrong body far more than the female side.
    But again the males are thrown to wolves as aggressors , slurred by the cry of patriarchy to put the entirety of men down. But the females doing the same thing are victims!!! Double standards and a very telling systemic anti male anti masculinity narrative…. any and all male achievements are taken for granted and disregarded because men are not valued other than as a source of blame to point the finger at and deflect all negative responsibility on to.
    This all needs to be address with same level of concern to both sexes regarding the welfare and exploitation of these young people and the addressing of the damaging and destructive ideologic movement needs to be applied equally for both males and females both sides are victims and both sides are facing the oppressive onslaught…
    I understand that females face diffrent threats especially where the male predatory and aggressive dangers are taken into account , obviously with womens spaces being violated and being opened up to the threat of male predators exploiting the trans movement for their own purpose and yes its a priority to stop immediately, but we cant ignore the genuine victims on the male side being trans indoctrinated because a small percentage of males are sexual predators. I just wish the young men , mostly gay men, would get the same level of concern for their welfare in regards to the trans onslaught as the young females are getting. The young boys being encouraged to mutilate their bodies are equally victims and are facing the same displacement from reality and self acceptance as the females but they are being overloooked and disregarded.

    Footnote on dignity..
    Males do not get awarded the same rights to dignity and privacy as women in a number of areas that are just taken for granted.
    Example , women are not expected to accept without question having a male nurse or doctor examine them for intimate issues , or atleast they are always asked if its OK. Men are just expected to strip off and lay it bare when female nurses and doctors are present without even being asked if they would prefer a male professional. Female changing rooms , toilets etc tend to have more seperate private areas within them however men are just expected to strip off or toilet infront of everyone else.
    You see this in school changing rooms. Females have cubicles, males have a bench .

    There are a multitude of examples across societal living to highlight this disregard for male privacy and dignity yet men are just regarded as not caring about such things and don't require private space. .. but that's because men within society are not awarded any individuality regard and the systemic stereotypes centred around masculinity allows for stripping males of being able to endure the same emotional and physical concerns with self as women… but in reality they do, just not aknowledged which is extremely damaging to young males in the growth process.
    Males bodies cause young men alot of anguish , embarrassment and discomfort as they change through puberty at diffrent rates.

    Females are asked how are you feeling and encouraged to talk about there emotions and mental health.

    Males are regarded as aggressive or weak and pathetic being told to man up.

  • Reply
    @GreenWhitePurple June 29, 2024

    The “honourable” idea as presented here doesn’t make sense to me. Even if you could depend on people being honourable ( when it’s already been demonstrated that you can’t – otherwise we wouldn’t need anti- doping rules), you would need an endless number of categories for different people and different amounts of medical interventions etc. As KS says, it comes back to just say men and women, keep the anti- doping rules and offer an open category if there’s an interest in that.

  • Reply
    @Flaxxseed June 29, 2024

    Dr Kathleen Stock* The title needs amending 🙂

  • Reply
    @louiseparker1915 June 29, 2024

    The TRA “professors can’t engage in a debate, because they have no cogent arguments!

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